Canon 5D is finally unveiled
Canon has introduced a completely new DSLR body to supplement its professional EOS digital camera range. The EOS 5D will be displayed at the IFA in September. The sale of this camera in the US is scheduled to start in October with pre-orders beginning in early September at select retailers.
The EOS 5D has been talked about for a long time by Canon camera users. Rumored as the digital replacement for the EOS 3, a professional camera body with an affordable price tag. The 5D also sports a full frame and will retail for 3295 $ in the US and 3295 Euros in Europe. This camera therefore, is the first digital Canon body with a full frame to retail under 4,000 $. The Canon 1Ds MK2 retails for 7995 $ in the US. Many pro photographers who use a 1D series as their primary camera have required the 1D’s features without its associated price tag to use as backup or as an additional body. The 5D full frame provides a shallow depth of field, a large viewfinder(larger than the 20D) and ease of manual focus.
With the 5D, Canon has reaffirmed what one of its executives stated in an interview early this year; Canon 1 series will eventually merge to a full frame single body and the 1.3x sensor will be discontinued. Canon also hinted that it would introduce a dust cleaning mechanism in its pro bodies after receiving many requests for that feature. It did not introduce it here as a full frame sensor and dust cleaning technology would have considerably increased the price of this camera.
For pro photographers, this camera now allows them to stop compromising with the 20D. The film EOS 3 was used by many pro photographers as a backup body and had a better features and build quality than the Elan 7 series. The 5D appears to have taken the same spot as the EOS 3. The 5D, similar to the EOS 3 does not appear to have seals in various joints like the 1D series and will therefore not be protected against salt water and dust as thoroughly as the 1D bodies.
For many semi-pro photographers, this camera will bring the affordability of full frame, pro-body quality and their wide angle lenses will truly be wide angle with the 5D.
For sports photographers, this camera may not be as interesting to them as the frame rate is 3 frames/sec. This is quite inadequate when compared to the 8 frames/sec of the 1D-Mk2. The 5D has only 9 focusing points compared to 45 focusing points of the 1D series. This is major disadvantage for fast action sports photography. The 4.8mp difference between the 1D-MK2 and 5D is also not that significant to compel them to invest in this camera. The difference in price tags between the 1D-MK2 and 5D is not significant but these cameras serve entirely different purposes.
For photographers using Nikon bodies, the D2X and D2H may have suddenly appeared to have become a tad unappetizing. The 5D has trumped Nikon with full frame and 3200 ISO with a price tag below 4000 $. For some Nikon users, this camera might be compelling enough to switch to a Canon system. However, they might find issues with the the build quality, user interface, focusing system, slower flash sync of the 5D and select Canon lenses.
The sensor can go upto ISO 3200(custom function). This, while being normal, many hoped that Canon had progressed further with its sensor technology to introduce ISO 6400. The flash sync is also limited to 1/200. Canon has also introduced a new 430EX flash with this camera.
If you have significant investments in wide angled lenses, the 5D will be a welcome upgrade. Kodak discontinued its full frame DCS Pro SLR/n(Nikon) and DCS Pro SLR/c(Canon) on 31st May, 2005. This left the 1DsMK2 as the only full frame 35mm DSLR on the market. The 5D will be welcomed by the digital photographers for its affordability.
The sensor is a CMOS 12.8megapixel and is based on the 1Ds MK2. Full frame at 35.8 x 23.9mm. Shutter speed is 3 frames per second with a 60 frames JPEG burst speed. 17 frames RAW, 9 point autofocus with 6 invisible points. The 5D will be compatible with all EF lenses (but not EF-S). LCD of 2.5inch 230,000 pixels. This is an improvement over the 1D series. Magnesium body. DIGIC II. USB 2.0 connectivity. CF card. RGB Histogram. The 5D is much lighter than the 1D bodies and weighs only 40grams more than the 20D. It has the form factor about the same as the 10D. It will take a new BG-E4 grip.
This camera is going to intensify the pricing pressure that Canon’s competition faces. Nikon prototyped the full frame sensor this year but it has not utilized it as the cost per FF sensor is upto 20 % higher than Canon’s. The 5D has been under consideration for a long time but Canon did not bring together a development team to actively pursue the 5D because the full frame sensor was very costly to manufacture and yield rates were not high enough to incorporate this sensor into lower price Canon bodies. Canon has met its product goals for the 5D but yields for the full frame sensor are still causing some internal concerns.
Canon manufactures its sensors from 8 inch wafers (200mm dia). One 8 inch wafer yields 20 FF sensors(if there are no defects) but presently yields are at 25 %. Seventy two 1.6x (22.7×15.1mm) sensors can be made from one 8 inch silicon wafer. Yields for 1.6x sensors per silicon wafer are at 70+ %. So therefore, with each LSI batch, there are about 5 usable FF sensors for every 50 1.6x sensors. At the time the 1Ds-Mk2 was released, yields were 10 % per wafer. With fewer usable FF sensors per wafer, production costs per sensor were significantly higher and this reflected on the 1Ds’s price when it was released. Canon sells far fewer 1D series bodies than the 1.6x 20D and Kiss n Digital’s. Optimizing and increasing the yields is a slower process for FF sensors.
The 5D sensor might be similar to the 1Ds-MK2, but the buffer system is only equivalent to the 1Ds. The tolerance level for image quality is slightly higher for the 5D in comparison to the 1Ds-MK2. The 1Ds MK2 has separate chips to handle data extraction and processing of the raw images from the sensor while these functions in the 5D have been integrated into fewer chips to save space and keep production costs down.
12.72 million pixel photos from a 23.9mm x 35.8mm CMOS sensor; each pixel is 8.2µm square, the same as the EOS-1D Mark II and EOS-1D Mark II N
Polycarbonate and stainless steel chassis and magnesium alloy
Control layout and overall visual appearance are similar to the EOS 20D
3 fps shooting rate for a Canon-specified 60 Large Fine JPEG, 17 RAW or 12 RAW+JPEG frames
ISO range of 100-1600 in 1/3 step increments, plus ISO 50 and 3200
75ms shutter lag specification, 0.2 second camera startup and 145ms mirror blackout time
9-point (+ 6 Assist AF points) autofocus system similar to, but not the same as, the 20D
Top shutter speed of 1/8000; a standard top flash sync of 1/200 (rated at 100,000, not the 200,000 of 1DII)
35-zone metering and four metering modes: Evaluative, Center-weighted, Partial and Spot E-TTL II flash exposure control
USB 2.0, an N3-type remote socket, PC sync and NTSC/PAL video out
2.5 inch (diagonal), 230,000 pixel TFT rear LCD
Picture Style menu for setting Sharpness, Contrast, Color Saturation and Color Tone
accepts CompactFlash Type I/II
Compatible with the WFT-E1/E1A transmitter and DVK-E2 Data Verification Kit
US MAP price: $3299 (US) €3459 (EU)
Canon is miscalculating its market by shortchanging the features of the 5D…..3frames per second and lack of iso6400 and priced over 2500US will be limited to only a select group and will not entice 20D users to move up. As a 20D user only the FF is not nearly enough for me to go buy a 5D.
Ah, maybe 20D users won’t upgrade but there are thousands of us who didn’t buy the 20D as it wasn’t that much better than our 10D. Or D60 for that matter. We KNEW FF would come down and we waited.
D2x will be unappetizing??? Why, so they can get a slow 3fps, amateur body with low pixel density, slow single axis AF, no High-speed mode, and shocking ergonomics? I don’t think so.
BTW, the D2x has ISO 3200 too. It’s called Hi-2.
Try to retain some objectivity when writing articles
Since the US price is not yet set in concrete…as a 20D owner (since 9/04) of both the 16~35 and 24~70L’s…shooting primarily scenic and travel for personal use only…the 5D is better than I hoped for after my first few 1000 shots with the 20D. I have said for months that I’d be in hog heaven if Canon made 1.3 FOV version of the 20D…without the mass of the 1 series for around $2500. They did me one better on the FOV (but the ISO still does not appear to be in the vwfndr…but everything is now in 1/3 stops)…now I have to justify the expense.
I was hoping the 20D successor would be my next camera as I have the 10D now and the 20D wasn’t upgraded enough for me. With only 3 fps, I can see why Canon is calling it the 5D. They are GOING BACKWARDS!!!
What were they thinking???
two things i do no like..flash sink speed at 200 ..going backwards ….all pro photographers like 500 second flash sink to shot out doors on a sunny day and i really liked built in flash in camera that is another thing i really enjoy on ther 20d ..what is canon doing ..going backwards ..
Let’s see, full frame format and 3 frames per second. My Nikon F’s with the F-36 motor drive were 3 frames per second and they too were full frame. They were available in 1960. After providing a camera capable of 8 frames per second, improved CMOS chip and maintaining the usefullness of the EOS-1 frame (batteries, remote cords, etc.), how is this going to appeal to working pros?
This sounds like a toy, not a tool.
A big piece to the puzzle may lie in the speculated 1D2 ‘N’. If that exists then this makes much more sense, saving Canon a ton in R+D, making the upgraded 1d2N the Nikon killer, and the 5D (the ‘toy’) being the “tweener body” that bring in the market share. What’s wrong with the current 1d2? It’s practically perfect expect it doesn’t market itself so well with lower resolution since a competitor *finally* came along.
BTW: what is flash ’sink’ Do you even know what a camera is?
If the 5D came out last year and the 20D this year I would be thrilled because it would be an upgrade at a bargain. Seems like FF costs a fortune. An unusual move from Canon in my opinion but time will tell. – now if they incorporate some of these features in the next model to replace/upgrade the 20D then things are looking up!
FF Sonsor is enough for me to make decision. 3fps is so critical? It maybe not. Amateur users who has 10D or 300D (Kiss D) and didn’t go to 20D may think the same way as I do.
lower cost upgrade to eos 1dmk2 is more appealing. 12mp, at least 5fps, built-in battery grip, higher flash sync speed, full frame, high dynamic range & beautiful color capture (like fuji s3pro), clean high ISO capability (like my 20D), fast & precision/accurate af, below us$3000. after my 20D, where will i dump my ef-s lenses?….hhmmm
Thinking out loud…20D sensor is 1.6 FOV and 8MP…5D is FF and 12.8MP. What if you put a 12.8FF in a 1DMKII body called it N and then had at least an 8MP crop in the center and a higher fps rating…and then: a) a better direct competitor to D2X…and b) end of 1.3 FOV for Canon…that has been predicted for some time.
Also, I think the 5D is targeted to studio…travel…scenic… architectural…astral…etc. shooters that could not care less about fps and weather sealing…but do care about cost and weight. Also, how many 35mm film photogs are out there addicted to FF…with loads of L glass…watching their favorite films and papers slowly disappear that are ready to jump to FF digital but didn’t want to pay $8000 and carry around a 3 1/2 pound brick?
These cameras strictly have pros in mind…PMA will give the hobbyists and semi-pros their 1.6 FOV upgrade…18 months after the 20D was announced…the average Canon cycle for 1.6 FOV model changes.
Interesting new camera. Seems to be aimed at those who want a more affordable camera than the 1DsMk2 but similar features. I expect it to appeal to those shooting portraits and landscapes, and maybe some wedding use. As I shoot motorcycles on race tracks I would say it is not aimed at me. I will keep my 20D until either I can afford a 1D Mk2 or Canon bring out a tweener sports body (higher fps and a very fast auto focus, even without the 1 series build quality).
To say that Nikon users might switch, but then to say not for the focus and lens system that Canon offers doesn’t make much sense.
Canon’s lens lineup has always been #1, with Nikon a close second.
As far as focusing goes, I can’t count how many Nikon users have tried the Canon equivalent only to be shocked at how much better the AF is on the Canon cameras (like 20D vs D70, and 1DMKII vs any Nikon camera)
Here we go again – quite amazing how strongly some people react to just another new camera… and how some blatantly disregard established facts, such as AF performance of Nikon vs. Canon (in case you wonder – Nikon’s AF in the D2H/D2Hx/D2X is without any single doubt better (read: faster, working in lower light, etc.) than 1DMkII/1DsMkII).
About the whole FF issue: what’s so sacred about FF?? Get ready to shell out some money for a good super-wide angle lens if you want to have reasonable image quality (oh, that’s right – even Canon’s current L series super-wide angles have serious color fringe etc. issues with FF…). For some a 1.3/1.6/DX size sensor is actually a benefit.
Oh, no ISO in the viewfinder? Hmm…
6 invisible AF points??? Back to 1/200sec flash sync????
To each his own! But remember, it’s really not about the camera…
Happy shooting, & thanks for listening!
Hey CH, with regards to Nikon’s digital cameras vs. Canon’s, I don’t know about auto-focus speed for stationary and moving targets. However, compary any top end lens made by Nikon to that made by Canon, and 99% of the time, Canon’s lens is better. New bodies come out almost every year, one year Canon may be one up, another year, Nikon. I invest not in the body, but in the lens system, which stays constant for decades. Over that period of time, I go through many bodies. With digital being in, the number of bodies I go through will only increase.
Therefore, the lenses are what make the buying decision and bar none, Canon has the best pro lenses, overall.
Mike
Podrian enviarme esta informacion en español?
Canon lens are #1? What a bull! I am sorry but Nikon and Canon lens are the same overall. Except Nikon doesn’t have quality control issues that Canon is sooo well known for. And Nikon has a 5-year warranty on their lenses as opposed to 1-year Canon. Now, which one do you think cares more about quality of their products? Go, run, buy latest greatest Canon, support the rat race! Woo hoo! I’ll sit, somewhat jealous, in Nikon camp. :)
Why are there people here complaining that the Canon has low pixel density? Are you guys stupid? Low pixel density is *GOOD*. It means a higher signal to noise ratio. It’s basic physics. I know Nikon users hate that, but it’s just the truth.
Not everyone needs to shoot 10fps in pouring rain. This 5D will be the ultimate travel dSLR. All the pictorial benefits of the 1Ds for half the price and far easier to carry. Image purists can use Canon’s legendary L telephoto primes and augment with converted Contax/Zeiss 21mm, 28mm and 35mm manual focus wide glass. I see this as huge step by Canon to be the camera maker of National Geographic-types … not just Sport Illustrated-types. Poor Nikon … hope they can keep up.
Yep, Canon continues to prove that they are the leader and they are on the bleeding edge of technology. On the bleeding edge, indeed, if their specs look avesome and their cameras and lenses continue to have quality issues. The reason Nikon doesn’t have a full-frame sensor yet is because they are actually listening to their engineers and don’t make decisions based on what their marketing egos tell them to do. I’d rather have a good camera than bleeding-edge gizmo.
Low pixel densitity is GOOD, indeed. But Nikon DX format is good enough, too. Come on boys (no girls here, right?), it’s the same old Mac vs PC race. Some like quality, some like speed.
“Some like quality, some like speed”
For both – disregard all considerations and go with the 1DMII :)
I’m one of the happy ones. This is my upgrade from the 300D, soooo glad I didn’t jump on the 20D bandwagon and waited.
Canon 5D is finally unveiled ! Says who? All I see is rumors. Did Canon call Techwhack and confirm it to them. I like to see some hard proof. The PDF sheet rolling around is not proof IMO.
hmmmm u noe…
i’ve seen somewhere it says..
Pros are those who make, and can actually make 100% their living from photography. They are the ones who want to earn most money, at least cost.
Amateurs are the ones who has got money to spend, and won’t hesitate to spend more $$ in order to get better photos. They are the ones with equipment that will make pros drool.
Pros I spoke to don’t use burst modes. They are so used to film that they can capture “the moment” with a single shot. Some of them lament, that last time, only the skilled photographers can capture “the moment”. Nowadays, any (rich) tom dick and harry just take 50 photos at burst, and choose 1 from it and are so proud to be able to capture it.
This is a camera for the pros, no doubt about it.
Oh yes, I know of people in the sensor market.
They say that the actual price difference of a FF sensor and a smaller sensor doesn’t differ by more than US$100. Both of them had a good laugh when i asked them why are FF cameras so expensive. Don’t know if it’s true, or the 2 of them are just out to pull my leg…
This article seems to basically regurgitate the PDF that was posted at the Romanian web site. Any real news? I haven’t seen any, though I’ve been looking and would like to see some. This seems to be only rumor.
A…you are right on…except that on other forums…posters have talked to “reliable sources” and they have been told that 2 new cameras will be announced in the next 2 weeks. But that’s all they were told. That doesn’t make it reality, but they appear to be genuine attempts…one used his own name. Dealers don’t seem to know yet…but are expecting something in about 10 days.
Everything else is speculation…although that Romanian brochure in English and Spanish is either a great piece of fiction…or a clever attempt to hide it’s origin.
I don’t think the picture is entirely legitimate, but it’s probably very close.
This could also be a well designed interest building leak…a tactic that is not unknown in marketing…it just usually doesn’t have that much info.
I agree with TY. A good photographer doestnt need 8fps to get a good shot.
I am a full time newspaper photographer and I use both canon and nikon. People who say one brand is better than the other are kidding themselves. They are both good. People have short memories, go out and buy some 800ISO film and look at the shots you get compared with todays digital slrs, regardless of brand.
If the rumors of the 5D are true then I think alot of people will struggle with their lenses on the FF sensor. I have used the 1Ds2 and even the 16-35L looks terrible. Its strictly primes only. I think alot of peoples jubilation af an affordable FF DSLR will be shortlived.
I thought photographers took photos. You ALL need to get a life outthere.
cameras are just tools not brains, Please get out there and do some real photography and less useless talk.
I own a 20d as my main camera, shooting mainly sports and action photography often at long distance, the only plus I can see on the 5D for me is the 12.8mp. Upgrade from the 20D? I don’t think so!
Yes, this the my dream camera that I’ve been waiting for years! I’m mainly interested in landscapes, and two years ago moved to MF using a Mamiya 7 system; but despite of its superior image quality, being a rangefinder it has it’s own operational difficulties, and future availability of Velvia 50 roll film is a serious concern. Canon 1Ds or 1Ds mkII prices have always been out of my financial reach – say even become affordable – they are too bulky to hike with, and catching unwanted attention if in public. Yet, I have been skeptical to subframe 20D or 350D’s compromised image quality especially for landscapes. Issues about relatively low frame rates, or number of AF points are out of my concern, since I’ve always used MF primes. Compared to film winding, 3fps sounds like science fiction, and I believe the built quality of this camera will be adequate for outdoors.
This is clearly not intended as a replacement for the 20D, most 20D shooters would not be happy to “upgrade” to this – the 3fps being the least of the reasons. The 20D has a 1.6 crop factor, yes, but also a tighter pixel density. Cropping the 5D’s sensor’s output to the same size would give you only 5 megapixels – making the 20D’s sensor preferable for wildlife and sports shooters who want the most reach from their long lenses. If anything this is a studio / landscape alternative to the sports / wildlife proficiency of the 20D, not a replacement (like the 20D was to the 10D).
Without a real good Canon wide angle lens, all ff is nothing. Today only the manual Zeiss lens give the needed quality. :(
Hey guys,
That’s great news.
I own a 10d:
The 20d upgrade was meaningless
The 1d markII too expensive and I knew it will be soon discontinued.
So the 5d!
3f/s is not a concern for me I used only a couple of time the burst mode. And 3f/s is quick enough – remember the viewer is blind all this time so it’s a guessing game.
FF means mostly a bigger viewfinder!! the 10d viewfinder is too small.
Concerning Andrew post – how a 16-35 mm can be deceptive? You didn’t explained… I know quality is better with the crop factor (because the quality is greater in the center of the photo) but that appart?
I’ll still believe it when I see it. Still vaporware and still no formal Canon release notes. This has been the most overhyped camera to date as far as I am concerned. I have no doubt there is a new one on the way…I am just not sold that all this info is accurate.
Andrew
really interested in this 5D camera. I like the 5 serie of the Canon EOS. Like the EOS 5. the spec seems fit to my needs, the street price I hope would be lower than the estimate above
Good news, I hope.
I have had a 10D and I now shoot with a 20D. I actally have to shoot a lot, but not all of my achitectural stuff on film still, (not my call) so I’m used to doing that on the 24mm x 36mm format. I have long wanted, but couldn’t justify the cost of a 1Ds or 1Ds MkII body. I do own good wide angle lenses. Canon makes prime wides with apertures several stops faster than their EF-S equivalent so if you are a wide shooter, the glass simply isn’t available for a 1.6x crop sensor. Nikon is ahead here but neither of them are even close to what is available for the 24mm x 36mm format.
Most importantly, I often use Canon’s Tilt/Shift lenses. These lenses need to work with a 24 x 36mm area to come into their own, (whether film or sensor). The 24mm just isn’t wide enough with a EF-S crop and, if you are using the lenses for drop focus effects, they don’t really get going until you are near the edges of the frame. (i.e. you’re cropping off the best bit). You can do perspective correction in PS, and it works pretty well but you will be relying on interpolation to create stuff that was never in the original capture. Try doing a big image stretch in PS then check the quality of the stretched bit. These lenses give beautiful results if used properly.
Another issue, especially if you are working with a camera a lot is the question of viewfinder size and brightness. That is your “office” if you are a working pro. Take a look through a 1Ds viewfinder if you haven’t already done it. It’s like knocking out the wall between your kitchen and lounge after using a 20D.
I will be getting a 5D but I won’t be selling my 20D. Hey, I’m just about to almost double my expensive lens inventory by having two different crops available for each of my lenses (except my EF-S 10-22mm).
Last thing – If that circulating PDF is correct, it looks like this one will get a centre spot meter and interchangable focusing screens. Cool, I’ve been missing those.
I’m nikon user (film) but 5D really interesting…Would love to buy one if the price around 2000 usd
A question and a comment:
-How far back will Canon D-SLRs support lenses? I thought I read somewhere that Canon changed something about their lenses 1 or 2 times in the past 30 years that makes old lenses incompatible (out-of-the-box) with new D-SLRs.
-I’m glad Canon *might* be moving full-frame sensors down their line. As a relatively new D-SLR owner, I’ve made the conscious decision to buy full-frame glass. I’d rather have the flexibility to interchange lenses between film and digital *and* not be stuck with potentially worthless (to me) lenses once I (or my brand manufacturer) upgrades to full-frame.
And, yeah, like someone said earlier- Nikon/Canon or Mac/PC, the varied differences between comparable brands matter less than what you produce using them.
Steve…Canon has made 3 lens mounts for SLR’s since the ’60’s…but I can’t tell you the dates of change.
The first was an FL mount which had a knurled collar at the lens base that you twisted to lock the bayonet lens onto the body…in the 70’s that was replaced by the FD mount which just twisted into place like the EF lenses do today. The EF series has been around for years…possibly 20…others can give the exact date…and the change to the EF was dictated by the needs of the AF mechanism as I recall.
There are many manual lenses that can be adapted to fit the current EOS as manual focus lenses…but I have never read that any exists to adapt the FL or FD series to an EOS.
I suspect none exists…as both Nikon and Pentax dSLR’s appear to be able to use some old glass…and they refer to it often…just never read of a Canon user doing so. I can think of a number of reasons, mirror contact…can’t line up the focal point with the film plane because the lens has to sit too far forward…no focus at infinity, etc…all wild guesses.
If you look back on my #12 post…note my comments about the 5D concept being ideal for travel…scenic…studio…archetectural, etc.
One thing I wonder about…some of these same people are the ones that have voiced objections to the noise level of the 20D.
If there is a 5D and if it has a half mirror…and it can only shoot 3 fps…is it also possible that this as yet unannounced 5D might be much quieter than the 20D…thus attracting FF wannabees with:
Full Frame
Large LCD
<1/2 the weight of a 1 series
<1/2 cost of a FF series 1
Spot metering
Quieter than a 20D???
And there are others…but these cover the common complaints about the 20D and/or 1 series shortcomings in the minds of many.
Could be a home run if all that is true…IMHO!
Still don’t understand why the mode dial on the left side
If that’s it, I would rather buy a D2X!
-How far back will Canon D-SLRs support lenses?
I thought I tried to answer this but guess it got lost.
Canon started with the FL series around the 60’s…it had a knurled white metal ring at the base of the lens that you rotated to attach the bayonet mount.
Later that was changed to the FD mount…same diameter…but it was just a solid barrel design that you aligned with the dot and twist version like the current EF series. To my recollection you could interchange either type on the old bodies.
When it came to the dawn of the autofocus era for SLR’s…there were unremembered reasons why Canon had to change to the EF mount and there was no backwards compatibility *as far as I know*…since there have been many complaints on that change from the owners of the FL/FD versions.
I read that both Nikon and Pentax dSLR’s can use certain of the old lenses in the manual focus mode…and there are adapters made for the EOS series for other makers lenses…but I’ve never heard of one for Canon’s old series.
FWIW
You make a lot of assertions such as ‘Canon is still experiencing difficulties in producing FF sensors’ without the least backup – how do you know?
Your assertion that Canon execs have stated that they will abandon the 1.3 sensor is also entirely false.
It seems to me that you are just re-hashing the specs which have been released in a journalistic manner embellished with a few poorly researched allegations of your own.
Either back up your statements or retract them.
Let’s see the source where Canon execs have publically stated that ehy are abandoning 1.3, for a start – besides the statements you make which infer inside knowldge of Canon, knowledge which I am confident from your wild and inaccurate statements you do not have.
Regards,
DaveMart
#40 and #43, there is a FD-EOS convertor, so this renders any “old lens” nonsense null and void… I mean, for goodness sakes, even if you could use old lenses on a nikon , doesn’t mean you get to keep autofocus, so what’s the point.
I have a 20D after upgrading from a 300D a year ago. This camera looks very interesting for the fact it is full frame and the main subject I love to shoot is landscapes. I have a 17-40L, and I find myself just wanting to see more past the edges on the 20D. As a student however, I don’t see the 5D being viable for me in terms of price for at least 18 months or so – so I guess i’ll be waiting out for it’s successor :)
And yes Paul – some girls are photographers as well!
God, that must hurt those who just bought an $8,000 1D Mkll, and I almost was one of them !! Upgrading every two years is scaring, hopefully this camera may be sufficient in picture quality and resolution for 4 or 5 years of use, closer to a good old film camera.
Man , that’s one ugly camera. I’ll probably buy one if the specs are accurate, but it’ll never make it to the Museum of Modern Art. I can’t wait til Apple starts designing cameras.
Canon EOS 5D ! 12.8 mp + FF + DIGIC II translates into image quality. This
camera should yield sharp & noiseless images that no other subframe camera
has ever achieved. Please look at comparisons on the web; there is much more
than 11 vs 8mp when 1Ds mkI compared to 20D, or 16.7 vs 12.4 mp when 1Ds mkII
compared to Nikon D2X. A body similar to 20D will be compact & sturdy enough
to hike with, a serious camera for travel, landscape, architecture, studio and
photojournalism. The most important point is its relatively affordable price,
that will fill a niche. Please check the links below:
link1
link2
link3
Canon EOS 5D ! 12.8 mp + FF + DIGIC II translates into image quality. This
camera should yield sharp & noiseless images that no other subframe camera
has ever achieved. Please look at comparisons on the web; there is much more
than 11 vs 8mp when 1Ds mkI compared to 20D, or 16.7 vs 12.4 mp when 1Ds mkII
compared to Nikon D2X. A body similar to 20D will be compact & sturdy enough
to hike with, a serious camera for travel, landscape, architecture, studio and
photojournalism. The most important point is its relatively affordable price,
that will fill a niche.
All these “features” are driving me crazy….. Being a pro for many years, shooting medium format and now shooting lots of digital stuff since the Canon D30, I have to wonder how we all did it with no motor drives, no auto focus, no auto exposure, no changing film ISO in mid roll. I don’t care if it’s Nikon, Canon, Pentax or CASIO… Give me a high resolution, square sensor (or 4:3 ratio)…I’ll take the auto-focus, but save all the other gizmatic features for the techno freaks… I’ll lick my finger and hold in the wind to get my exposure settings if needed…. and if that doesn’t work perfectly I’ll have a 2.5″ LCD preview to make any corrections…… I think all these 35mm based digital camera makers could learn alot by looking backwards 10 years at how portrait, wedding and commercial photogs did their work. It wasn’t created with any automatic features. Good film, good glass and a good set of eyeballs.
David, I had a brace of Blads (500CM – SWCM -ELX the first one in So. Cal.) back in the early 80’s…and I agree with most of what you said.
However, I distinctly recall loading 160 ISO in one back and 400 ISO in another for the same event…prepared to switch as required. I still have a Bronica ERTSi…and do the same thing.
I’ve known several wedding shooters…and admittedly they have their exposures…lenses…flash outputs…distances…focus down pat. Almost to a formula…so they can concentrate on composition, expression, posing, etc. And they have spent endless hours with their dual purpose flashmeters getting it down pat for their favorite lab to process. Plus there is some latitude in the negative films used, more so than for those of us who shot chromes.
We chrome-types always had a spotmeter on our hip to take both highlight and shadow readings. Adams even used a meter before shooting that legendary MOONRISE frame.
It’s progress…cars now have 5 – 6 – 7 speed transmissions…ABS…Traction and Skid Control…rear view cameras…intelligent cruise controls. Doesn’t make you a better driver, but more efficient and safer. (I did not include BMW’s I-drive.)
Lighten up..in the long run the electonics are giving those of us with less talent better opportunities to produce better results for our hobby, business or pure self enjoyment…what’s the harm in that?
I read an article recently about a well known photographer that was going to limit himself to an M-series Leica and a 35mm lens…as I recall. Another has gone back to a Speed Graphic. It’s all in the choices we make…some like it simple…others like it techie…room for all.
As I seen the Kodak DCS Pro/n and Kodak DCS Pro/c are no longer manufactured. Kodak had a nice approach to have one Body for Nikon lenses and the other for Canon. Having this in mind there might be some hope for a “1 D Mark II N” beeing a Nikon lens Body from Canon. This would be an advandtage for Sports Pro Shooters to switch. And also an opportunity to get finally good wide angle lenses for a Canon.
– Maybe just a speculative wish for the future.
The 50% increase in pixels over the 20D with the same pixel dimension and FF for under $4000 is huge for me. I cannot justify $7000-8000. I do large prints such as 24×36 and every extra pixel counts. The more native quality pixels the better the overall interpolated print. I am buyer at $3495. Hoping for $2999 though. :)
kd
Canon’s market research should not be ignored. The 3fps issue is moot in a number of applications, including mine (technical and aerial imaging). I’m waiting to see the noise, mosaic and AF/AE performance. If the image is as defensible, or more defensible than the 1DsII (a potential with the advances in sensors & processing), I’ll be doing handstands.
this isn’t the camera we have all been waiting for – that s for sure…but it is pointing the way for future models. I own a 1dmk2, so its a no brainer – keep the current camera and wait for a full frame 12mp with the following features (talking as a wedding photographer here) 5fps min., more users adj color settings and matrix options, full frame (love wide angles) pro body build and looks – no battery pack options thanks canon, 50-3200 iso rating and the latest in dynamic range….not much to ask full really…at same price as 5d…
re: #53
“Adams even used a meter before shooting that legendary MOONRISE frame”
Adams DID not use a spotmeter for “Moonrise” or any meter for that matter.
He couldn’t find the meter so he guesstimated.
Now, THAT’s a master photographer.
James, you are correct…I was relying on a 20 year old reading about the shot.
I knew a meter was involved and it was a Weston…but the fact was he couldn’t find it in his rush to get the shot. His exposure was based on the Zone System and adjusted for the filter on the lens.
P.S. I really didn’t say it was a spot meter…I don’t think they were even invented yet.
I think with he lack of information about the new 1D IIn which we should get on Monday (the camera is officially confirmed, but here is absolutely no leakage in technical information, why?) we can not discuss the value of the 5D. The 5D is the camera for semipros in portrait, landscape, makro… . I´m owner of a 20D and was looking for a EOS3 in digital because of the price of the 1DS II, but this will unfortunately not happen. The EOS3 was the perfect camera for me, not so expensive like the 1 series, but with nearly the same features (especially AF, and better…). And I NEVER used the HighSpeed motor setting in 6 years! The 5D is a liftet 20 and not the dress down 1 in meaning of camera technique, not chip and pixel. OK, that´s the bad point. But if I see the quality of the prints from the 20, I believe with the 5D I don´t need a different camera for the next years… . At the end there is the speculated price of 3500 Euro which is very high, but cheap for a FF. If you want FF, you will now get it for a price never seen before, if you don´t need it, the camera is maybe nothing for you!
So I can understand people taking pictures of birds, wildlife etc. They like the factor of the 1D II anf the 20, but now it´s time for the other group of photographers ;-)
Come on! the PDF file “leaked” it is very funny lots of grammar mistakes (get someone that speaks spanish to read it and he will laugh like me… a lot), very badly done… Canon Wont be risking a full frame sensor camera in the substitute of the canon 20D, they will risk it with the ones who has a larger budget to change camera it would be logical if it were in the line of the 1DS cameras… this is 100% an hoax….
And With the release of the Konica Minolta Maxxum/Dynax 5D that was announced a lot of months ago then canon cant be Idiotic enough to name the camera as one of the competition… pleaaaase Hoax all the way dudes
Someone said:
And With the release of the Konica Minolta Maxxum/Dynax 5D that was announced a lot of months ago then canon cant be Idiotic enough to name the camera as one of the competitionâ?¦
This came up over at DPR, too. My comment was that both KM and Canon have A200’s…and several cars have XL…GT…LS…GTO…etc., models.
I think you have to have a name associated to get copyrights…the alphabet and numbers are public domain.
My joke is that both my keyboard and Nikon have an F6.
I would not put any money on your hoax theory. I put a lot of credibility in the controlled leak theory…a very common marketing tactic when you want to steal your competitor’s thunder or momentum.
Dude, check your facts – they’ve been announced on the Canon website
:D
Everyone says today is the day the Canon 5D is unveiled. I’ve been waiting to purchase a new camera outfit. I checked the Canon website and don’t see anything about it??? When and where would we see the official information???
I’m not certain why everyone NEEDS to upgrade, just becuse it’s got higher resolution than say a 10d or 20d, I use my 10d and 20d professionally for 16×20 – 24×30″ enlargements regularly and the need for something with higher resolution is not an issue. However being full frame and giving me the ability to use my 8mm circular, 16mm full-frame fisheye, 14mm etc lenses is very exciting!
Yes I will be upgrading – well actually I’m going to keep the 10d and 20d, but I’ll be adding a 5d to my arsenal.
Nevermind – I’m starting to see the official information everywhere.
By the way, this would not be an upgrade for me. I’ve been out of photography for 10 years and I’m jumping back in. I was (and may still be) going to purchase the 20D, but the full frame and better resolution for shooting stock for publication (especially when hoping to get a double spread) seems the way to go. Any thoughts between 20d and 5d when it comes to building a stock folio?
Canon are the Nike of photography – good at tech, but wizards at marketing. Full-frame is a BAD thing in digital photography, because of the relative dimensions of the lens throat and sensor size. It makes it physically impossible to get the best out of a lens, as the edges of the sensor must only receive light at acute angles. Independent testing has shown that the D2X resolves barely less information than the 1DsmkII, partly for this reason. So this camera is a cynical move, as I see it. OK. you get to keep your old wide-angles, but with the trade-off that they won’t be that good. Trust me on that. I feel sorry for Olympus here. The four-thirds system is built around the needs of digital, with a large lens mount, a small sensor, and telecentric lens design, yet all we hear is the clamour for full frame. It’ll be interesting to revisit this issue in ten years’ time or so, and see which viewpoint won out. I’d be surprised if the sensors are still the size and shape of old movie film by then. Why the attachment to 24×36mm, people?
dh.. amen brother!! I’m on the same wave as you, I hate the 35mm format… HATE IT. I mean, nobody wants an 8×12 print, or any print in that format. So, there’s an automatic crop factor when shooting this format. What happens to a full frame, 12 megapixel image? It quickly becomes a 10, 9, 8 or less megapixel image during the first crop. The four thirds is the best move to continue with 35mm bodies, lenses, etc…..yet the no one’s done it …..yet?
I was just about ready to dump my Canon gear, 20d – 10d, a few non L lenses, and ex flashes (which suck) when “the d5 leak” appeared. I was all geared up to go Nikon, D2X, lenses, etc…. Now this 5D appears as reality and the carrot on a stick is hanging on Canon’s string ……AGAIN!! A friend of mine has a 1DsMKII with a couple L lenses and the image quality is freaking outstanding. However, the camera body, the L glass, all adds up to nearly $14,000. Wow!! Dollar for dollar, is NIKON still a better way to go, even if the 5D comes in around 3 grand??
Oh yeah… the other issue with DX vs full size sensors….Depth of field.
The DX / APS size sensors will have larger depth of field at the same aperture, relative lens focal point than a full size sensor. This can be a major issue when shooting portrait photography and a shallow depth of field is critical. Pros and cons… The issues with edge sharpness might not be that much of an issue if you’re cropping four-thirds / ideal format. by doing so you lose whatever grunge….
Full frame is BAD for digital photography. What planet are you from? Ever heard of dynamic range and signal/noise ratio that’s achieved with larger photosites? While pixel density plays an important role in smaller sensors, the larger photosites in FF sensors play a much bigger role in overall picture quality. And that includes sharpness because of the stronger signal to less noise ratio. Precisely why larger sensors in any format will ALWAYS be preferred in large prints. Anything 20×24 and up that is. The reason 35mm is so prevelant is because the lens industry has 50+ years of design and production experience developing lenses with the circle of confusion for 35mm. These lenses have the size, weight and quality that consumers prefer. Your right though, in ten years FF sensors may be a thing of the past. THEY MIGHT ALL BE MEDIUM FORMAT OR LARGER, but I really believe 35mm full frame will be alive and well. APS-C may or may not depending on the advancement of FF sensors. As of now the APS-C sensor is usually preferred for telephoto shots and smaller prints. This could change if FF development can lower the pixel density and still maintain the excellent signal/noise ratio of the current FF sensors. Many are betting on that happening, but for now the APS-C sensor cams still have a place. Cheers.
kd
13MP at 3500$? I wanted a 20D with more AF points, brighter viewfinder and maybe a higher ISO rating.
Would be interesting to know what the “real” cost of a sensor (and indeed a 20d and 5d camera is).
Is it the same 100 times factor that you see in cars where an upgrade in carpets costs you 500 $ but the cost to manufacturing is 5$?
I like the bigger LCD display, hate not having a builtin flash for the 5D.
Davo said:
” youâ??re cropping four-thirds / ideal format.”
I don’t know that there is an *ideal* format, but it would not seem to be 4:3…as even TV has moved from that.
Granted there are a few 6 X 8 bodies out there…but very few.
There are far more 1.25 aspect ratio high quality prints out there from 645, 67, 4 X 5 and 8 X 10 bodies than any 1.33 aspect ratio bodies I can think of. Agreed that FF at a 1.5 aspect ratio is often too wide…but also often not too wide. In my mind it is easier to crop a FF to a 1.25 ratio than it is to stretch a 1.33 to a 1.5.
But I’ve worked with FF since the late 50’s…and it seems natural. Even though we had a 4 X 6 image we always put it on 8 X 10 paper when we did it ourselves. We just never cropped too tightly in the viewfinder.
Guess it’s what you get used to.
I’m well aware of the advantages of larger photosites, but it isn’t such a key issue as it only comes into play at high ISO settings. Edge fringing, vignetting, loss of resolution apply on every picture if you have that problem. It’s that lens throat problem. Personally I’d love to go medium format, but I can’t justify it. So when I ditched my Minolta gear to go digital I went with Nikon in spite of Canon seeming to be a step ahead technically – because at least Nikon seem to have a consistent approach, which is to keep the lens mount, shrink the capture area to a technically appropriate size, and develop new lenses to suit. Canon have three sensor sizes. And nobody (except Kodak, briefly) produces Canon-mount cameras except Canon. Change your Canon camera, and you are likely to need new lenses. Not the way I wanted to go. And to return to the 5D, if you can’t afford a 1DsMkII, you aren’t going to like the cost of wideangle lenses that produce an acceptable image on full frame sensors. I still say it’s Canon giving people what they want instead of what they need.
Yesterday, I was excited with the news that 5D became true; but my first impression with the sample images provided by Canon, is disappointing. The landscape photographed with 17-40mm L @ f/8 is simply useless. It’s suffering from edge & corner resolution, and there is no pleasing texture of trees, grass, wood or the rocks, compared to anything from the 50mm with Mamiya 7. Crop its film twice by half, and the scan from that piece will still be better. Canon’s other samples also show mediocre performance. To my first impression, this is not the camera I’ve been expecting in accordance to recent innovations with imaging technology. Not a 1Ds mkII equivalent, but more of a FF brother of 20D with little improved, (even inferior at WA) output. Not likely the alternative to trade my Mamiya 7 system for. But no doubt, it will yield better images if Canon, or Zeiss primes are used. I’m wondering how the new 24-105mm L IS will perform on this camera, and waiting for side-by-side comparisons vs 1Ds mkII, 20D & Nikon D2X. And, where is the D200?
Eos 5D I love it, but very expensiv (why???) and Why only 3f/s Why not 5f/s?!?!
My first step into digital was with a 10d. I liked the controls and features, and the lens lineup. At the time, only the d100 was the competition. So I’m invested with only three lenses – the 17-40L, 70-300 DO-IS, and the 28-135 IS. I’ve seen what the 17-40 and the 70-300 DO-IS can do on a full-frams sensor – just look at the Luminous Landscape. I know the lenses will perform on the 5d. The 28-135? Jury is out. We’ll see… Largely because of the 10d, I have full-frame glass. I see the small image circle lenses cementing the 1.5 and 1.6 sensors, but I’d like to have my 17 perform like a 17. The 1.6 factor only robs me of that possibility, and really only crops the 300 tighter – the image is still the same size. I can cut off the edges of film to make the image larger in comparison to the total film – which is what the 1.6 sensor does. – I will still need the same blow-up factor to make a 16×20 regardless of the sensor size. The lens makes the same size image regardless of the receptor. I see the smaller sensor heavily “spun” as to it’s advantages. As for 3fps, the speed of the 10d was never a problem, but the buffer size was. I think it was the largest of its day. With the 5d I get 60 jpegs deep, or 17 raw deep before the camera effectively locks up. No, I do not shoot sports. Maybe that “perfect” shot is in those miliseconds between 3fps and 6fps. For me, just not an issue. But I do a lot of single frame or slow burst, and the buffer is critical for me. All in all, the 5d with the ff sensor, and the price point well below the 1dsm2 seems like a good fit for my needs. And I’ve seem what my glass can do on a 1ds in the proper hands. I’ll be on the waiting list.
I shoot professionally and I have to say that the high ASA performance of the 20D is excellent. Significant enough to make it a worthwhile upgrade from the 10D. This new 5D is definitely an eye catcher for Pros not shooting sports.
The 5D may have a significant upgrade in its lowlight performance, since the 1600 ASA is not being accessed from the menus, so Canon feels that it is good enough for mainstream use? The 3 fps speed is an upset but not much slower than the MKII Ds speed of 4 fps at less than half the cost. I don’t shoot in burst mode, exept at fashion runways.
The full frame sensor is a great advantage for overall signal to noise ratio and light gathering capability in low light (why I think that this camera will perform very well in lowlight). In my mind the extra megapixels from a low-density sensor is a godsend. Yes, I do not often print 20×30 but I do often crop. I will tell you that with any kind of crop from my 20D you definitely see the difference from a cropped image and an uncropped image. Having 5 extra magapixels will definitely give you much better quality in cropped images that have to be enlarged to 8×10 or larger. Also, having wide angle back is great for me.
Another advantage for me is the extra resolution that this camera will generate. The 20D has 1800 lines of resolution (which is great). The 5D should reach numbers comparable to the D2x of 2200 lines of resolution. This extra resolution is invaluable when shooting groups of people, landscapes, and fine art images where I want the absolute best image possible. Try shooting a group of 3 to 5 people from head to toe and then, zoom in on an individual face: you will see that you want as much resolution as possible. This camera would also be great for shooting some assignments were you would shoot medium format. This is a great advantage.
The 3 fps tradeoff is a welcome trade to the extra resolution. The lower sync speed is another matter, but the 1/3 stop loss from 250 is still not bad since you have access to 50 ASA setting which gives you an extra stop to shoot outdoors with flash.
Keep shooting.
Finally, the camera I’ve been waiting for! Don’t assume that all pro photogs need 8 fps, 45 AF points, etc. This camera provides outstanding resolution in a compact package. That is all I want. I have been a Leica shooter for years and a firm believer that simple and unobtrusive is good. For the kind of photography I do, this camera represents a real triumph. Finally we’ll be able to go back to real focal lengths and know exactly what we’re getting when we read the numbers on a lens. Sportshooters, I understand its not for you, but I can’t wait ’til they hit the shelves!
Get real you Muppets …… Just because you’ve spent all your welfair cheques on 20′ds, don’t start running down the 5d to justifuy your own stupidity, You know you wan’t it, you tart.
Nikon seems to be treating their development of digital bodies the same way they did film bodies – slowly. The dirty little secret with film bodies was it didn’t matter which one you used – they were basically black plastic boxes with different features to suit different market levels. THE LENS AND FILM were the only critical components to great image quality. With digital bodies, the sensor is the most critical component since it is not interchangeable. Nikon has now fallen way behind Canon due to their inability to come out with a full frame DSLR body. Nikon slapped their customers in the face by only offering APS sized sensors that crop the images of their existing lenses by 50% yet so many Nikon fans were suckered into buying these off-format bodies. (How many of you switched from 35mm film to APS film cameras!?) The highly rated Nikon 17-35 zoom becomes a mere normal to normal zoom in Nikon’s digital world. What a waste of a wonderful lens. Asta la vista, Nikon. Hello Canon 5D.
Nikon’s refusal to come out with a FF sensored camera is in fact going to force me to get the 5D. To me Nikon has their thumbs up their butts, and their service department can’t fix a darn thing properly. I’m a Nikon fan gone bad, and that is Nikon’s fault. I hope many will follow and switch to Canon, how else can we make Nikon understand that you have to at least provide your customers with at least one FF digital SLR, AT LEAST 1!!!!
Having been convinced of the joys of the digital slr by purchasing the D100 a few years ago I was/am ready to commit to a professional level system. Initially I was sold on the 1Ds mkll – the 16mp, that beautiful pro body, 3 tilt & shift lenses, the MPE macro, all those stabilised lenses, the Do’s etc etc -I have hung on hoping that canon would eventually reduce that hefty price tag. Well, 10 months have passed and very little has happened to that price, and I am still no closer to purchasing my dream combo! So, here is my dilemna; canons pricing may not have changed but the market has, we now have the D2x and the 5D – what to do ? I have read every available internet and magazine review of the contenders (accept the 5D of course), viewed all the samples, fondled the bodies. Whats my conclusion you may ask (or may not!) In reality it does not sound as though there is too much between them. The 1Ds mkll has the edge with higher iso noise (800+). But others have said nikons offering contains slightly more image detail. At the very least it must be said that the image quality of the D2x seems pretty close to the 1Ds mkll, despite being a smaller 12mp sensor. There are two things that trouble me about canon – they definitely have a wide angle problem, I have seen tests that suggest that the 17-40L is canons best for the 1Ds mkll sensor. Well, if it is I am not impressed, the samples I have seen have been very poor. I am pretty sure they will design one specifically for their high resolution sensors, but at the moment there is a gap. Then of course there is the price, in the UK the 1Ds mkll body is two thousand pounds more than the D2x. For that alone l am almost willing to forgo canons splendid lens range. At the end of the day I need to get on and take photo’s, so unless the 5D’s picture quality is practically identical to the 1Ds mkll I am afraid I will have to go with the D2x.
Nikon makes its optics from start to finish. That means from a grain of sand to actual “Glass” optics. Canon does NOT make its own optics AND it is “NOT Glass” optics. Canon’s optics expand due to heat, so Canon uses light colored outer shell to restrict optic expansion. I feel that a good set of lens is the key to a great picture, and I find that Nikon is better by far with its lens. Who cares about FF that Canon offers. Vignetting is a big problem with the images that Canon FF creates. The images are sharpest and cleanest in the mid section of the image, so who wants FF. Canon seems to attract those who are all interested in the bigger numbers, not the quality of a picture.
5D or not 5D!that is the question? I`ve traveled the World with my trusty 10D,won more awards than I ever could have imagined,did I miss my true wide angle capability,not really! Am i angry that canon gives you less than one year honeymoon period before your new camera becomes yesterdays techno-trash,yes i`m angry! so why is it i can`t stop thinking about that 5D full frame,full frame,full frame I`m going Mad!